Community engagement

JOANNA CAREY: Welcome to today's webinar on the Independent Investigation into the Historic Republic of Korea Australia Intercountry Adoptions.  My name is Jo Carey and I'm the taskforce lead for the investigation at the Department of Social Services.  

I would like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the lands on which we meet today and pay my respect to Elders past, present and emerging and extend that respect to any First Nations people attending today.  I'm coming to you from Canberra on the lands of the Ngunnawal people.

I'm pleased to be joined today by the Minister for Social Services, the honourable Tanya Plibersek, and Mr Robert Cook, who is leading the investigation.  I will go through some housekeeping matters before handing over to the Minister.

We will be recording today's webinar.  It will be published on the DSS website in the coming days.  Questions submitted through Slido will not appear in the recording.  

You can ask questions during the webinar using Slido.  You should see the Slido chat on the right hand side of your screen.  You will need to activate Slido by clicking "Activate" and agreeing to the terms and conditions.  

Please do not provide personal information or information which could reasonably identify an individual on the Slido platform.  Please also refrain from sharing personal information stories on Slido.  The Slido chat will be moderated and any questions or comments with personal information or offensive content will not be published on Slido.

Today we have Auslan interpreters joining us and you should be able to see them spotlighted on the screen.  This webinar is also being live captioned.  You can see the captions at the bottom of your screen.  

Specialised support is available for intercountry adoptees through the Intercountry Adoptee and Family Support Service.  You can contact ICAFSS by phone Monday to Friday between 9am and 5pm, the contact number is 1800 422 377, or you can also email ICAFSS at icafss@rasa.org.au.  I will now hand over to the Minister.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, thank you so much, Jo, and it's a real pleasure to be here with you today and with Robert Cook and you'll hear from Mr Cook in a moment.  
First of all, I want to join Jo in acknowledging that we're on the land of the Ngunnawal people and I pay my respect to Elders past and present and wherever you are, I'm sure you would join me in paying respects to Elders wherever you are in Australia.

The reason that we're having this webinar today is because I really did want to give you an update on how we're going, the commitment that we've made as a Government to investigating intercountry adoption processes from Korea in that period 1964 to 1999.  I know that this has been a really long and difficult process for many of you and the more we can stay in touch and update you on the work that we're doing, I hope that is reassuring for you.

I wanted to start by saying that all of today's discussion is off the record.  I know that some of you are in regular contact with journalists and what you decide to do after this webinar is up to you and absolutely fine, but if there are journalists on the line now, this discussion is absolutely off the record because we want people to have the confidence that they can ask any questions that they want to in the Slido and nothing I say or that Jo or Robert says today is to be reported so that we can speak freely as well.

Australian attitudes to adoption have changed a great deal in recent decades and the work that we saw from the Korean Truth and Reconciliation Commission has revealed that there were indeed very serious failures in the Republic of Korea's historic intercountry adoption program.  Records were falsified, children were stolen from hospitals or even from homes.  Children were incorrectly described as orphans when in fact they had living parents and other family members.

Now, there's no doubt that those things happened in the Republic of Korea and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is continuing that work.  I'm sure there will be more information about individual cases that will come from that process.

I've met many people from the Korean Australian adoptee community who have shared their individual stories and their pain with me.  The Korean Government has already acknowledged that the Korean intercountry adoption process has a painful history and has apologised.  So we believe that it's also time to make sure that   well, we know that wrong things happened in Korea.  It's time to examine what happened at the Australian end of the intercountry adoption process.

So we're looking at intercountry adoptions from Korea from 1964 to 1999.  Magistrate Robert Cook is leading that investigation on behalf of the Australian Government.  

I've spoken to a number of stakeholders already about the reasons that I asked Robert Cook to do this work.  He brings 30 years of legal and judicial experience, including three years heading the ACT Children's Court.  He understands the sensitivities involved in the issues at hand.  I know, Robert, you don't mind me saying that you've had personal experience in searching for your birth parents.

Robert is already looking at available policies, particularly at the Australian Government end, so the policies, procedures and documentation that we have at the Australian Government end.  He's also looked at some of the international evidence that's available.  Later this year, we'll expect some initial feedback from the early stages of his investigations and then, as a Government, we'll consider next steps from then.

We'll make public what we can, noting the importance of upholding various privacy laws and maintaining the trust of individuals who share their information with the Government.  The information that you provide to us will be treated confidentially and sensitively.

I'm going to ask Robert to say a few words and then we've got a number of questions that have already been submitted and we'll have a look at some of those shortly.

MR ROBERT COOK:  Thank you, Minister, for your warm introduction.  I'm honoured and privileged to lead the independent investigation into the historical adoption program between the Republic of Korea and Australia.  

I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land upon which we meet, their Elders past, present and emerging.  I acknowledge also those whom I appear before today who were born in the Republic of Korea and who were brought to Australia from the Republic under the intercountry adoption program.  I acknowledge their adoptive and biological families and friends present and those engaged in examining intercountry adoptions more broadly.  

For adoptees, I acknowledge the profound consequences of your relocation and its significance to you and the potential impact the disconnect from family, community, culture and country may have had on your pursuit of identity as to who you are.  I acknowledge too the potential impact on adoptees' biological parents and family and their adopting parents and family here in Australia and the legitimacy upon which they engaged in this specific adoption program I am reviewing.

I have a limited experience of separation from family, although my experience fails in comparison to your respective journeys.  In Australia, as in the Republic of Korea, single mothers raising children was not seen favourably by members of the community, certainly in the mid 50s, when I was born, and early 60s.  

My twin sister and I were placed into care from birth and until being returned to our mother, it wasn't until later in my life that I found and reconnected to my biological father.  I was delighted to see him as it explained everything for me about who I was.  Just seeing him, I could see me.

I was lucky I had the answers to so many questions that flooded my mind and behaviour as I grew up.  I appreciate that the ability to establish such connections has been denied for many of you.  

I continue, as has been raised by the Minister, my judicial experience in relation to my part time work as a judge in the Local Court of New South Wales.  In practical terms, those involved in this webinar will be working closely with the dedicated taskforce being established by the department and the external auditors to examine Australia's historical systems and identify any systemic failures or unethical practices during the relevant period.  

I also take into account and pass on my role for your knowledge that in my role as head of the Youth Court here in the ACT, I examined the difficulties for many children within their families and had to deal with making orders in relation to both retention of children within families or otherwise removing them.  Understanding that process, I think, is important at one level, but more important in broader understanding what has happened in the past to you.

As has been the approach I've applied in my judicial life, this review will operate taking a trauma informed approach premised on sensitivity, transparency and fairness.  I recognise that people will bring different lived experiences and perspectives to the investigation and I am committed to creating a safe, respectful and inclusive environment for people to share these perspectives in a way that works for them.  All participation, of course, is voluntary.

Over the last few weeks, I've been researching, reading and sifting through a range of material to further my understanding of intercountry adoption.  This includes a 2005 House of Representatives Standing Committee report on the inquiry into the overseas adoption in Australia, as well as academic papers and reports on intercountry adoptions from the Republic of Korea specifically.  

Over the coming weeks, we will develop a community consultation plan to guide my engagement with intercountry adoptees and community stakeholders, with the aim particularly to allow adoptees and their families to be consulted and updated throughout the investigation.

I hope to be able to meet with adoptee stakeholder organisations, who I expect will have valuable insights for the investigation.  As the Minister mentioned, these meetings will be an opportunity for those groups to tell me about their understandings of historical adoption practices and to hear about the impact these practices had on adoptees, adoptive parents and their broader families.  Thank you, Minister.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Thanks.  Just a few final comments from me.  The first is some people have asked why just Korea and what I would say about other countries where there's been a large number of adoptions from, like Sri Lanka, India and Taiwan is we're not ruling out looking at these in the future.  We're absolutely starting with the Republic of Korea, though, because the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission there has given us a lot of material that we can examine.  We know for certain that Australians who were adopted from Korea were failed by processes in Korea.  We need to determine whether there were also failures at the Australian end.  That's the essential question that we're asking through this inquiry.

We also hope, of course, that the fact that Australia became a Hague Convention signatory in 1998 and that we strengthened adoption laws after the 2005 inquiry that Robert just mentioned in 2007 strengthened laws as well means that we are in a different world today, but of course what we learned from this inquiry inevitably informs what we're doing today to make sure that we continue to have high standards in Australia.

The final thing I want to say in the opening comments is that I really think the best way that people can stay in touch with what is happening is register on the DSS website for regular updates.  That means that as we progress in this investigation, as information becomes available or as the consultation program is ready, you'll get that information automatically and, of course, just to remind people that the Intercountry Adoptee and Family Support Service is available for anyone who needs support.  That number is 1800 422 377   1800 422 377   or you can Google it, you'll find the website.  Thanks.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Minister and Robert, for those addresses.  We're now going to move into the question and answer session, where we will be answering a mix of presubmitted and live questions, and I'd like to thank those of you who did presubmit questions for today.  Please continue to submit any questions via Slido.  

We have received a number of duplicate questions, so where that has happened, we have combined them into a single question, and I'd just like to remind you again not to put any personal information in Slido.

So the first question we've got is why does the investigation only look at adoptions between 1964 and 1999 and what about adoptions that occurred after that date?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, as I briefly mentioned a moment ago, that period from 1964 to 1999 is the focus of the Republic of Korea Truth and Reconciliation Commission investigation.  It means that we've got a really substantial lot of information that is available to be interrogated.  

I have heard from some of you that adoptions that happened beyond 1999 would be included in the investigation.  At this stage, we don't have the information available at the Korean side that would allow us to do that effectively, so the fact that we've got the findings of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that we can incorporate that work into our evidence base here in Australia is important and I think will add capacity to the work that Robert is doing.

Once he's done this work, though, that obviously opens up whether there are any subsequent steps that we need to take as a Government.  So I'm not ruling out this work in the future, but we need to focus on keeping the promise that we've made, which is to look at what's happened through the Korean Truth and Reconciliation Commission and check what happened at our end during that period.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Minister.  Robert, the next question has come through for you and it is how can stakeholders or adoptees be involved in the investigation?

MR ROBERT COOK:  Well, I think the process is to stay registered and sign up on board, keep an eye on the DSS access page to the inquiry and review, receive updates and respond to those updates as you think might be helpful for the inquiry that I lead and that will be the best way.

JOANNA CAREY:  The next question that's come through live is why is the investigation not a parliamentary inquiry?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, we're not   again, not ruling out a parliamentary inquiry.  This is delicate, difficult work and we need to treat people's information sensitively and parliamentary inquiries can be very valuable processes.  We've had some terrific parliamentary inquiries, including, I think, the parliamentary inquiry in 2005 that led to changes around adoption laws in 2007 did some very valuable investigation in this area.  

But parliamentary inquiries are not automatically trauma informed and they're not automatically the most sensitive way of dealing with sensitive information.  So it's certainly not ruling out a parliamentary inquiry down the track if we decide that that is a necessary next step, but it's not a first step that I was comfortable with.

JOANNA CAREY:  Next question is, when are the Terms of Reference expected to be finalised and publicly released?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Very shortly, the coming weeks.  So we expect to finalise the terms of reference and publish them on the department's website very shortly.  We need to make sure that the terms of reference take account of any sort of restrictions there are with sharing very sensitive information.  

So that's not holding Robert up at this stage.  I mean, I might hand over to Robert in a moment to talk a little bit about the initial work that he's doing looking at the publicly available information that's already out there, particularly at the Commonwealth end and internationally.  Robert, did you want to say a bit about that?  

MR ROBERT COOK:  Thank you, Minister.  In relation to where we are at the moment, there's been a lot of work and certainly from the support that Jo, as the taskforce lead within the department, and her team have provided to me on a whole range of documents and access points to look at matters in much more detail and depth.  That has taken, obviously, a considerable amount of time.  One of the reports is 395 pages.  Another is 245 pages.  It takes time to read them, but also to understand the context in which they are written and why they are written in the way that they are done, having regard to the global circumstances on intercountry adoption as it was emerging at the relevant time, where there has started to be at least a recognition that some things were not happening according to both expectations and potentially the laws of the respective countries that were either sending or receiving.

In relation to that, I've had the opportunity to read at least one of the overseas reports from the Government internal committee process in relation to adoptions within the country and while that report is extensive, it shows the level, I think, to which the team is trying to find out if such a report was written by a country overseas, would it have been reasonable for the Australian Government or state or territory government to have knowledge about that if it was raising issues which might be relevant to this inquiry, for instance, about what was being done out of the Republic of Korea.  

The point being made is that we are trying to be as broad and as deep in our inquiries and our research as we possibly can to try to see if there were linkages that were missed in relation to what was happening to children being sent out of the Republic of Korea and specifically to Australia, but if there was a question about that occurring in other countries, whether or not that may have placed us on a broader knowledge base to have known.  

But the answers to that are just entirely unknown at this point in time, but what I wanted to say to you is that and to give you the reassurance that we are looking everywhere and whatever we find will be disclosed.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Robert.  May people other than adoptees and their families contribute or make submissions to this investigation?

MR ROBERT COOK:  Sure, yes, and that's the part about the consultation plan that will go out and that we're working on collectively is to get into those specific interest groups who can lead the way for groups and act on their behalf or individuals to engage in that consultation plan once we're able to finalise that, which is linked to the terms of reference.  

So as a stepped process, it is being very carefully and delicately done.  These are sensitive matters and we understand that entirely.  What we want to make sure is that you're not compromised in any way and the information that I know that you want to give us doesn't compromise you in the way that you give it to us.  So we just want to make sure that process is safe and secure for you.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you.  The next question is what are the expected outcomes of the investigation?  Will there be any consequences for people or entities that are shown to have done the wrong thing or a formal apology, compensation or redress?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  I think it's really way too early to answer that question.  I think the nub of this investigation is we know that wrong things happened in Korea.  Should we have known about that at the Australian end, did we know about that, were wrong things done at the Australian end of the intercountry adoption relationship with the Republic of Korea?  

I don't want to pre empt what we might find from the investigation.  How the Government   any next steps and how the Government would respond will really depend a lot on what the investigation finds.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Minister.  Robert, the next question has come through for you and you touched on this in your presentation, but it's around how the investigation will be designed and delivered in a trauma informed way and particularly minimising distress for participants.

MR ROBERT COOK:  Yes, well, the focus always in relation to that is to recognise that that sort of issue in relation to being trauma informed for us will be captured in one sense on Monday.  The team are all undergoing refresher training in relation to working in a trauma informed way and dealing with all the things that we might say and do and research on and then how we report that to recognise those sensitivities which need to be recognised in dealing with the very nature of the issues confronting the adoptees and how they express those requests to us and information to us as to what their personal circumstances may have been.  So it is really making sure that we're on top of the latest considerations in a trauma understood background so that we can apply that to our inquiry.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  I'll just add something.  One of the reasons that I particularly wanted Robert to do this work is because of his work in the Children's Court in the ACT.  Do you mind saying a little bit about that?

MR ROBERT COOK:  Sure.  In relation to dealing with young people and personal circumstances in care and protection matters involving families, young people, kin, grandmothers, grandparents and working out the tensions which operate between families and within families and people wanting to know where they stand as young people, it was always my object and, of course, a legislative intent that I was always guided by what is in the best interests of the child and that was the single most important motivator.  

In dealing with what is in the best interests of the child, there are many interest groups that have a view about what that might mean.  From my perspective, it was always just simply looking at the child, looking at their personal circumstances and trying to work out where it fits for them in their life journey about what is an appropriate pathway for consideration.  

From that, I had the ability to develop for circle sentencing processes for young First Nations people and young people generally as they came before the youth court a process which involved them not coming before the law courts per se, but coming before a meeting which was done around a table to work out what had happened to the young person in their life and how to resolve that process for them going forward, but making sure that what we recognised entirely was what was important for them and recognising that whatever circumstances they had engaged in whatever activity it may have been, it had a lot to do with the environment into which they were raised and to which they existed and perhaps, more often than not, not so much about them in particular, but they were reflective of the world in which they were raised and brought up in.

So having that background and experience as I've raised in relation to it in my opening was to look at both the sensitivity and the fairness of everyone who makes submissions and how that might be then dealt with in this particular matter.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Robert.  A question that then has come through is will the Australian Government put pressure on the Korean Government to give Korean adoptees full access to our files?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, we, I’ve been in communication with the Korean Government letting them know that this process is happening.  I'd be interested to know how much access people have had so far.  Jo?

JOANNA CAREY:  I think it is an excellent question.  I think that part of the investigation will certainly look at what access people have had and part of their experience with that so that it can consider what findings can be made and what future actions might be necessary or appropriate.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Can I just explain to people if you're hearing bells in the background, it's because Parliament is still sitting, so that's the Senate having a division right now.  Sorry about that.  Next question.

JOANNA CAREY:  Next question.  What is the Government's plan for post adoption support when ICAFSS funding ends in June and where will impacted individuals turn for support?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, it won't end in June.  I've extended the funding to the middle of next year and I'm looking for a more permanent solution.  It will not end in June.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you.  We did receive several presubmission questions that highlighted different avenues that the investigation should consider, so these included specific information and reports that were passed on to Australian authorities, the types of evidence accepted by Australian authorities at the time, and the possibility of inappropriate financial incentives for adoptions.  Could you tell us a little bit more about what the investigation will look at?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Oh, well, I think all of those things will be in scope.  We've just got to make sure that we have the appropriate legal procedures in place to protect people who are sharing information with us.  It is legally a little more complex than I expected when we began the investigation.  Making sure that people who give us their information can do so legally and have it considered is   we're just working through that methodically now.

JOANNA CAREY:  And I will note because I've seen some of those very detailed questions and they were actually incredibly useful and we'll provide those to Robert for his consideration in the investigation as well.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Great.

MR ROBERT COOK:  Thank you.

JOANNA CAREY:  The Korean Truth and Reconciliation Commission investigation reopened for further adoptee submissions earlier this year.  Is the Australian Government engaging with the TRC?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Yes, we've been   I've written to the Ambassador here and we'll stay in touch with what's going on through that process, absolutely.

JOANNA CAREY:  The next question is will the investigation examine the role of Commonwealth authorities, particularly since the late 1990s, when federal oversight of intercountry adoption became centralised?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Sorry, can you say that again, Jo?

JOANNA CAREY:  Will the investigation examine the role of Commonwealth authorities, particularly since the late 1990s, when federal oversight of intercountry adoption became centralised?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Yes, it absolutely will and in fact Robert is starting with the Commonwealth and the role that we played in that, both before and after the Commonwealth ratified the Hague adoption convention in 1998.  

Obviously, since the ratification in December '98, the role of the Commonwealth has been more pronounced in the intercountry adoption area.  We established at that time the Australian central authority which manages Australia's obligations under the Hague Convention, international relationships and policy, but there were various Commonwealth agencies that were involved in intercountry adoption even before that time and so we're committed to looking at Commonwealth involvement both before and after ratification of the Hague Convention.  That includes looking at our oversight role and the practices and procedures that were adopted at the Commonwealth level and making sure that any information that Commonwealth departments or agencies received at that time was appropriately dealt with.  

I mean, I think this is one of the central questions that we'll have to ask through this investigation, were Commonwealth agencies told of any wrongdoing or could they have reasonably believed that there was any wrongdoing and if that information was provided, what did they do with it?

JOANNA CAREY:  The next question is will the investigation include input from adoptees, adoptive parents and former adoption workers, particularly those who raised concerns, but were ignored or silenced?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Yes.

JOANNA CAREY:  How will the investigation  

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Sorry, can I just say one thing?  This is such a difficult time for adoptees, but I know that there are also adoptive parents who are listening in today who really want answers to these questions as well and who are hurting alongside their children, so of course we'll accept information from families as well.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you.  How will the investigation access individual files and records and how will consent processes be managed?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, the individual files are the bit that we need to be most careful with.  There are very strict rules about how that information can be shared, with whom it can be shared, and that's why we're taking a little bit of additional time with that individual case file part of the investigation.  
We're starting with the Commonwealth policies, procedures, you know, what the agencies knew, when they knew it, what they were told, who told them, and the individual case file element of this investigation I think we just need to make sure that we've got all of the proper protections and procedures for handling delicate individual information and so we will do that later on in the period of the investigation.  Do either of you want to add anything?

JOANNA CAREY:  No, I think that's absolutely right, but I would encourage everyone, as we've said today multiple times, to subscribe to the website to be able to get updates as soon as those opportunities do become available.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Yes, great.

JOANNA CAREY:  Will the inquiry take similar steps to Denmark to investigate diplomatic pressure between the Australian and Korean Governments on supplying children?

MR ROBERT COOK:  It's an interesting question and the position in relation to that, as I understand it   and certainly from the material that I've read   is that historically there was diplomatic pressure being brought by other countries to the Republic of Korea.  There's nothing before me, though, at the moment, nor have I formed the sense in relation to any document that I have read to date that such pressure existed between Australia and the Republic of Korea.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I've not yet found anything which would lead me down that pathway at the moment.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Robert.  The next question is for you as well.  Will the investigation examine and compare the processes followed by each state and territory, so including the initial screening, assessment, approval of adoptive parents, and will it consider inconsistency between the approval processes of different states?

MR ROBERT COOK:  As a matter of course in one sense, the broader part of our terms of reference as we're examining and developing them currently will require us primarily to look at what occurred within the state of New South Wales, it having the primary carriage in relation to adoptees arriving from the Republic of Korea to Australia in the relevant period.  

Where we uncover or see broader state and territory involvement in relation to the adoptive processes, then we'll look at what those governments applied in relation to both their records and the jurisdiction they sought to exercise, and particularly having regard to whether or not, again, there was any unethical or irregularities in the processes that should have been applied under Australian law as it was known and applied at the relevant time.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Robert.  Will the investigation address private expatriate and independent adoptions that fall outside Hague Convention processes, including gaps involving immigration and agencies outside DSS oversight?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  It won't be able to in these initial stages.  We simply won't have the information that we would need to do that.  

Again, I think I've been very clear from the beginning that this is a really important first step.  We're very focused on looking at the Australian end of the examination that the Republic of Korea has undertaken of its own adoption processes.  I know that there is a lot of interest from the adoptee community to look at other types of adoption, to look at adoption from other countries, and to look at adoption outside the timeframe that we're focusing on, and while we're not ruling that out for the future, that is not the subject of this investigation.

JOANNA CAREY:  The next question is how many adoption cases is the investigation targeting to analyse and what is the target sample size?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, we don't have a sample size set yet, but we do aim to look at individual case files once we are certain that we can do that in a way that is legally robust and maintains the privacy of the people who are sharing their information with us and protects them legally as well.

We do anticipate a case file audit step we would look for an appropriate sample size when we do that, but we're not naming a sample size at the moment.

JOANNA CAREY:  The next question we have is what should individuals, so both adoptees and their families, who submit cases and testimony expect back from the department or the inquiry?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, there will be a report.  Robert will, I have no doubt, write us a very comprehensive report and I will share as much of that as I'm legally and ethically able to do.  There may be some elements of that that will need to be confidential for legal reasons or because people have asked us to keep their information confidential, but it's my expectation that we will share as much of Robert's report as we possibly can.  If there's something that he needs to tell me confidentially for some reason, I'm reserving the right to receive that information confidentially as well.

JOANNA CAREY:  Why are there no mandated ongoing welfare checks for intercountry adoptees after placement and will the Government consider introducing requirements to ensure the safety and wellbeing of adoptees over time?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  We are always absolutely focused on the safety and wellbeing of children, whether they're adopted children or whether they're in out of home care in Australia or whether they're kids living with the families they were born into who aren't safe in the family home.  So we continue as a Commonwealth Government to work with the states and territories that have primary responsibility for child protection and out of home care to make sure that kids are kept safe.  

The responsibility for the initial adoption processes now and for any ongoing supports is a responsibility that we share with state and territory authorities, but this   it's a very good question, but the question doesn't   the inquiry that Robert is doing for us is not going to look at what is happening in terms of welfare checks now.  That will not be a subject of Robert's inquiry.  

But I can assure people that both through my work with the Community Services Ministers that I meet with regularly, through the Safe and Supported Plan, we've already spoken about intercountry adoption.  We speak regularly about child protection issues more broadly and we'll continue to work harder to make sure kids are safe.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Minister.  The next question we have is around the role of the New South Wales Department of Communities and Justice in the investigation.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, we're working very closely with DCJ.  DCJ obviously has the bulk of the records that we're looking at, has the bulk of the policy and procedure documents, and we'll obviously work very closely with them.  I know that you, Jo, and the department have been meeting with them very regularly.  Do you want to add anything?

JOANNA CAREY:  Yes, we have been and they've been incredibly collaborative and working very closely with us to find a way through and we expect to be able to continue to do so.  We do know that other states and territories did have a role in adoptions prior to 1978, so we're committed to working closely with all relevant parties in relation to the investigation.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  And I'm regularly speaking with the New South Wales Minister as well.  We're making sure that the Commonwealth is contributing the resources they need to actually physically look through the boxes of files that they've got and old policies and procedures, we're prepared to help them with human power to do that.  

It's a big job and, you know, there's no hostility or resistance at all from the New South Wales Government.  They are a willing partner in this.  They're also concerned to make sure that historical intercountry adoption practices were undertaken appropriately and properly through the time that we're looking at.

It is a big job, though, and of course we need to make sure   I know I sound like a broken record when I say this   that we do this kind of legally and ethically, that this information is very sensitive information and we need to handle it with appropriate care.

JOANNA CAREY:  The next question we have is if we have submitted already with the TRC, can we submit an application to this investigation as well?

MR ROBERT COOK:  I would have thought so.  There's no limitation, the consultation plan when it comes out is to encourage you to do that.

JOANNA CAREY:  Yes, there would be no restrictions on that.

MR ROBERT COOK:  No.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  And in fact, for people who have got information from the Republic of Korea   I mean, the reason that we've focussed on Korea and we've focused on this time period is because we had this rich resource of documents that have been released and the investigation that's happened in the Republic of Korea, it actually gives us a really good perspective on the potential failures that we need to look for at our end as well.

JOANNA CAREY:  Our next question is how will the inquiry ensure this process does not cause further harm to adoptees?  If it fails to deliver meaningful recognition, so if expectations are raised but not met, it risks adding another layer of trauma, especially as many Korean adoptees have already spoken in past processes without meaningful change.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  This is one of my biggest worries about this whole process.  I am genuinely worried that people who engage in this go through the process and have more information and a better understanding at the end of it without adding to any trauma or sadness that they're already feeling.  

I can't promise that a process like this will be painless.  I think that inevitably participating in processes like this comes at a personal cost for many participants, but we will try to do it in the most sensitive way that we possibly can and the reason that   I mean, we are trying to make sure that we uncover anything at the Australian end that was improper or substandard to try to allay some of the doubts that people might have about their own history or their own place in this history of intercountry adoption and we'll continue to offer supports.  

As I said, I've extended the funding for the support service and I think the department are very clear, and Robert himself is very clear, that we want this to be as meaningful as possible for the participants and I take it very seriously.  I'm talking to you today because I take it very seriously.

JOANNA CAREY:  Absolutely.  Our next question that has come through is can you clarify if this investigation will assist adoptees finding out more about their origins or is it review of government processes only?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Again, I really want to be straight with people.  This is not going to uncover what happened in Korea and the reason that a child was adopted in Korea.  That information is almost entirely held by the Korean Government.  It will be looking at the Australian end of this process, the information that was given at this end and whether it was appropriately challenged, investigated, whether proper procedures were followed here, whether anybody at our end should have known what was going on at the Korean end, were there warnings that were ignored.  This is not going to give people a lot of information that is held by the Korean Government.

JOANNA CAREY:  Our next question is around whether the investigation will review the current Commonwealth state agreement on intercountry adoption and gaps and confusions around responsibilities for post adoption support and responses to illegal practices.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  It's not   I mean, we will learn from this inquiry inevitably.  It will raise a whole lot of issues like that inevitably, but it is not the purpose of this inquiry.  
But, again, I do want to reassure people that I meet regularly with Community Services Ministers from all of the states and territories.  These issues are always before us.  So the fact that this inquiry is not set up to look at intercountry adoption today or support services today does not mean that the Government doesn't consider those issues.

JOANNA CAREY:  In the instances where there's substantiated and reported evidence of child abuse against a Korean adoptee by the adoptive family, there's recently been a landmark case where an adoptee has successfully annulled their adoption, will this be a process that may be investigated so that other adoptees can avail of this as an option more easily with information and supports available?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, again, this is   I know it's of a great deal of interest to many in the community.  It is, again, not the purpose of this investigation.  Robert has got a really big job ahead of him already.  He is not going to be able to investigate every challenging element of intercountry adoption in this inquiry.  

That very disturbing case, which I obviously read and followed, I think stands on its own merits.  This is an issue that will be dealt with through the courts, essentially, case by case.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you.  We are running up against time, so I might just ask one last question before we close and it is how does the Minister and the Department of Social Services plan to communicate updates and outcomes of the investigation to adoptees?

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, two main ways.  The first one that you've been very good at reminding people of, Jo, is please register if you want to receive regular updates.  We won't Spam you.  We're talking about once every few weeks you may get a communication about this.

I understand that, for some people, every time an email like that comes in, it can be shocking or upsetting.  It may be that you ask a friend or a family member to be the contact person and to be the one that registers.  Of course, if you prefer that, that's fine.  

I'll also stay in touch with the organisations, the intercountry adoptee organisations.  I have a phone meeting with them every few months and I've said we'll continue to do that.  So if you prefer   if you find the idea of potentially getting an email out of the blue distressing and you don't have someone that you want to do that on your behalf, you may prefer to stay in contact with one of the intercountry adoptee organisations.  That's another way that you can do it.

JOANNA CAREY:  Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Robert, for handling a vast number of questions.  
I'm cognisant that we didn't get through all of them and I want to assure people online that we will be reviewing all the questions that have come through, both the presubmit and the live, to come up with some other answers and publish them on our website in due course.  Minister, I might pass to you to say some closing remarks.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  Well, just before I do that, I might ask whether Robert has any final remarks that he wants to make

MR ROBERT COOK:  Thank you, Minister.  All I can really request and encourage you to do is engage with us on the website, engage with those representative groups who will be given information and might disseminate it to you.  Feel completely safe and protected in contacting us back.  No question will be disregarded.  We may not be able to answer it, but we really do want as much information as we can receive which is relevant to the inquiry and we'll do our best to use that, examine it and work out what response we might provide to you, having received it.  Thank you.

THE HON. TANYA PLIBERSEK MP:  And I want to thank you, Jo, and the team in DSS for the work that you're doing and I want to thank you, Robert, for taking on what I know you take very seriously as a really important job and I want to thank all of you who have joined us online today.  I can only begin to imagine what a difficult topic this is for many of you who are watching or listening today.  
I really want to make sure that we do our best for you to get you some answers, and perhaps it won't be an answer to every question you have, but an answer to some of the questions about what Australia's role was in intercountry adoption from the Republic of Korea in the years that we're talking about and then to share those answers with you.  So thank you for participating.